Saudi religious police ban pet cats – Part 2

August 23, 2008 at 1:36 pm | Posted in Uncategorized | Leave a comment
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In response to my previous post on the Saudi religious police banning pet cats, a Muslim friend wrote me some comments:

omg i have so much to say!!

 

umm.. briefly…

 

Pedophilia, I agree it was ‘odd’ marrying Aisha since she was so young. But, he did not have ahem relations with her till she was matured. It’s not clear about the age, but she was around 17/18 when she had relations.

 

Amputations- It is a very harsh punishment. But, it instills fear in those who hear about the punishments of criminals. I’ve heard somewhere that due to this, Saudi’s crime rate is low. I’m not rooting for it, but I’m trying to justify it.

 

Pets- Dogs are seen as dirty animals, and supposedly they have the ability to see satan. The ban on cats as well is inane. The prophet had cats as pets.

 

Keep in mind Saudi is full of wahhabism. It’s like the endogenous islamic country. pisses me off…..I can find justifications for the rules and restrictions, but they’re not strong enough.

 

Will write more after exams.. Amazing post!!

 

take care

I decided to respond to her:

 

Pedophilia, I agree it was ‘odd’ marrying Aisha since she was so young. But, he did not have ahem relations with her till she was matured. It’s not clear about the age, but she was around 17/18 when she had relations.

I find your answer to be false but encouraging. It’s encouraging because you would obviously feel embarrassed if Muhammad had actually raped Aisha when she was nine. This is good. Many Muslims actually sanction it.

It’s false because he did not first have relations with her when she was 17-18 years old. Muhammad was dead by the time Aisha was about 18.

There are several Sahih (authentic) hadiths in which Aisha herself states the ‘marriage’ was consummated when she was a nine-year-old girl (technically, 8, since she was referring to 9 lunar years). In fact, she was playing with her dolls at the time.

Examples:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
Narrated Aisha:
“When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah’s Apostle to me in the forenoon.”

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311:
“’A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.”

Even if he can be forgiven under the pretext of moral relativism, the fact that he is seen as the example of conduct for all time makes child marriage Islamically permissible. Child marriages were commonplace in the Taliban. The legal age of female marriage in Iran is nine. Saudi imams still sanction child marriages.

 

This is not a fringe interpretation I brought up from texts in a dusty bookshelf, but the mainstream interpretation. Even ‘moderate’ Canadian imams like Bilal Phillips say that it’s okay to have child bride, because Muhammad himself had one.

 

 

 

 

Amputations- It is a very harsh punishment. But, it instills fear in those who hear about the punishments of criminals. I’ve heard somewhere that due to this, Saudi’s crime rate is low. I’m not rooting for it, but I’m trying to justify it.

First, why are you trying to justify it if you are not rooting for it? If anyone other than Muhammad had prescribed amputations, you would have described it as barbaric. Keep this in mind as you try to defend your religion.

Think about it for a minute. What happens when you cut a thief’s hand or leg? He or she is less able to find a job to make a living. Muhammad had no comprehension of this. This monster chopped thieves’ limbs to their death:

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4396:
“A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.

So his (left) foot was cut off.
He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)
He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.
He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.

So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.”

 

 

 

 

And out of Islamic justice, it seems Muhammad never even heard the man’s case to establish his guilt.
Finally, even if it did lower the crime rate, it’s like saying we should impose a curfew to maintain the safety of citizens. There is a limit to this. Thieves should be isolated from society and be trained on a skill to be given the chance later to contribute to society. Chopping off limbs won’t solve the problem.

 

Pets- Dogs are seen as dirty animals, and supposedly they have the ability to see satan. The ban on cats as well is inane. The prophet had cats as pets.

Dogs are considered to be impure in Islam. Angels are said not to enter a house that has a dog. However, it is permissible to have one outside the house to guard the house, but not as a pet. I don’t know about their amazing vision to see Satan, although I would expect it to be an asset for Muslims if that were true. (I’d like to know if someone I hate were in my bathroom! LOL).

It seems you agree that dogs should not be touched. Well, how about those that help the blind? There are many Muslim taxi drivers in North America and Europe who kick out blind passengers because of their guide dogs. Do you actually sanction this? I may love cats, but I’m still with the dogs here!!!

Cats are okay to keep as pets, to my understanding. I think what is forbidden is to make a profit out of giving cats to people (selling them). I may be wrong.

The reason behind Saudi’s ban on cats is so men don’t use them to attract women. There is no Islamic mandate that supports this, but the end can be used to justify the means. Muhammad could not tolerate his women to be seen by other men, so he had them covered in face veils. Picture yourself in his shoes: A 50-60 year old with about a dozen of mostly young women he captured from his raids. No wonder he felt insecure. And since everyone wants to emulate the ‘perfect human being’, they enter his bubble mentality and find any means to enforce that.

 

 

Keep in mind Saudi is full of wahhabism. It’s like the endogenous islamic country. pisses me off…..I can find justifications for the rules and restrictions, but they’re not strong enough.
What is Wahhabism? Wahhabism is the Islamic reformation that was started by Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab. His idea was that any cultural additions to Islamic culture should be considered a forbidden ‘bidda’ (innovation), which the Quran forbids. He engaged in a jihad to impose pure Islamic laws on Islamic land. So Wahhabism is basically Islam. People make a distinction between the two because they don’t want to offend moderate Muslims who have no theological backing in the first place.
Wahhabis are honest. They want to follow their religion. I dislike moderates. They want to have their cake and eat it. They are disguising a wolf in grandma’s dress. They need to be shamed.

Will write more after exams.. Amazing post!!

Good luck with exams! Write back here or by private message (up to you). My aim is not to embarrass or show off, but to educate. (Okay, and rant…. No one messes with cats, not even Allah!!!!!)

PS: “My aim is not to embarrass or show off, but to educate.”
Actually, embarrassing Muslims is a tactic I sometimes use. It’s an effective antidote to counter their fear of hell. Shame is a big thing in Middle Eastern culture. I do it on a case by case basis.

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